Topline
The House Oversight Committee will interview former White House counsel Kathy Ruemmler on Tuesday about her ties to Jeffrey Epstein, putting the lawyer on the record about her relationship with the late financier as documents suggest she had a close friendship with Epstein until his 2019 arrest—but she claims otherwise.
Key Facts
Ruemmler will speak with the committee behind closed doors Wednesday as part of lawmakers’ ongoing investigation into Epstein, but a transcript will likely be released in the coming days.
Ruemmler, who stepped down as Goldman Sachs’ top attorney earlier this year over her ties to Epstein, previously served as President Barack Obama’s White House counsel before going into private practice, at which point she met Epstein around 2014.
Documents in the Epstein files suggest the two had a close relationship, with Epstein frequently chatting with Ruemmler and sending her lavish gifts—including expensive spa visits, an Apple watch, an Hermes bag and $10,000 in Bergdorf Goodman gift cards—and Ruemmler frequently using terms of endearment with Epstein, referring to him as “Uncle Jeffrey” and signing some emails with “xoxo.”
Ruemmler remained in touch with Epstein until his 2019 arrest, with documents in the Epstein files showing she helped him try to rehabilitate his public image amid reports of his alleged abuse, and handwritten notes indicate he called the attorney directly after he was arrested.
Ruemmler has denied any wrongdoing or knowledge of Epstein’s alleged abuse and has claimed she was not as close to the late financier as their communications suggest, with spokeswoman Jennifer Connelly saying the attorney “knew Epstein when she was a criminal defense attorney and shared a client with him” and “was friendly with him in that context.”
What Will Lawmakers Ask Ruemmler?
Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthy, D-Ill., told Reuters ahead of Tuesday’s hearing that lawmakers must use the interview to “pull back the curtain on how Jeffrey Epstein built and maintained wealth, power, and influence while operating one of the most notorious sex trafficking operations in modern history,” also noting how the Epstein files “revealed a far more extensive relationship between Ms. Ruemmler and Epstein than was previously understood.” Ruemmler had a number of exchanges with Epstein documented in the government’s files that have raised scrutiny and could come up on Tuesday, such as a 2014 exchange in which Ruemmler said, “Most girls don’t have to deal with this crap” when discussing a job issue. “Girl=??” Epstein responded. “Careful I will renew an old habit.”
What Has Ruemmler Said About Her Relationship With Epstein?
Ruemmler has said she “regret[s] ever knowing Jeffrey Epstein” and has referred to the late financier as a “monster” in the wake of his death, with spokesperson Connelly telling The Miami Herald, “Ms. Ruemmler has deep sympathy for those harmed by Epstein and if she knew then what she knows now, she never would have dealt with him at all.” In a recent interview with attorney Ankush Khardori for the The New York Times—which has been criticized for being too sympathetic to the attorney—Ruemmler defended her seemingly close relationship with Epstein as being in line with how lawyers operate with wealthy individuals. Ruemmler has received expensive gifts from other clients like she did with Epstein, she claimed, and defended her friendly tone with him in emails as being what’s necessary for a woman in the industry who’s trying to be taken seriously. As “the only woman in the room oftentimes,” Ruemmler told Khardori, “you have to figure out how to get people to listen to you.” She also defended specific conversations with Epstein, alleging that when Epstein referred to his “old habit,” she assumed he was talking about referring to adult women as girls. “Hindsight bias has caused many people to assume that given everything we know now, everyone who dealt with Epstein must have known all of that then,” Ruemmler said. “That assumption is wrong.” She and Connelly have also pushed back on a number of specific points of interest in her relationship with Epstein, such as noting her call with Epstein after his arrest was “brief” and didn’t result in Ruemmler taking any specific actions to help him, and denied comments by Epstein that suggested Ruemmler did personal legal work for the financier. “Ms. Ruemmler had no control over how Epstein characterized her or their interactions,” Connelly told CNN. “She was not his defender. She never advocated on his behalf with any third party – not the press, not a court, not a government official.”
Contra
While Ruemmler has repeatedly claimed her relationship with Epstein was strictly professional, there are also a number of comments in the Epstein files that suggest Ruemmler and Epstein had more of a personal friendship than she has claimed more recently. Epstein described Ruemmler at one point as his “great defender,” for instance, while Ruemmler told Epstein in 2015 she was “thinking of you and am so very grateful for our friendship.”
Tangent
Ruemmler’s interview with Congress on Tuesday comes shortly after the Wall Street Journal reported her transition away from Goldman Sachs has become a point of contention for those hoping to replace her as the company’s top lawyer. Ruemmler formally stepped down from her role at Goldman in February, saying it was in the bank’s best interest for her to step aside amid the media scrutiny she’s faced over Epstein. The attorney has stayed on at the firm as an advisor and to help find her successor, which the Journal reports has raised “concern” among some employees at the bank and potentially dissuaded potential applicants, because “it is unclear how long Ruemmler will stay on and in what capacity.” Goldman Sachs has defended Ruemmler’s continued presence at the bank, with spokesperson Tony Fratto telling the Journal, “The leadership and the Board appreciate her willingness to stay and help as she has been an excellent General Counsel.”
Further Reading
She Was One of Obama’s Top Lawyers. How Did She Get Tangled Up With Epstein? (The New York Times)
Gifts and soup from ‘Uncle Jeffrey’: The Epstein ties that ended Kathy Ruemmler’s run at Goldman (Associated Press)
Birthday wishes, island plans and ‘xoxo’ sign-offs: Inside a former Obama WH counsel’s ties to Epstein (CNN)
