Former Goldman Sachs chief legal officer Kathryn Ruemmler told Congress on Wednesday that convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein was a “masterful liar” who used her to “legitimize” himself — though she acknowledged that he referred paying clients to her law practice.
Ruemmler, who resigned as Goldman’s top lawyer earlier this year after previously undisclosed communications with Epstein became public, told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on Wednesday that she maintained years of dealings with him because of those business relationships.
“I did not see any evidence of ongoing criminal conduct or misconduct of any kind by Epstein during the time I dealt with him,” Ruemmler told lawmakers in her opening statement, adding that she “would have immediately reported him to law enforcement” had she seen evidence that he was abusing women or girls.
Ruemmler also expressed regret over the relationship, telling members of Congress: “If I knew then what I know now about who Epstein really was, I never would have accepted an initial meeting with him. It was a mistake to deal with him, and I regret it.”
The prepared remarks offer Ruemmler’s most detailed public account yet of how the relationship began and why it continued for years after she left the Obama White House and returned to private practice.
According to the testimony, Epstein cold-called her in July 2014 shortly after she rejoined Latham & Watkins, pitching what he described as a donor-advised fund involving Bill Gates and seeking a lawyer to “quarterback” the legal work.
Although that project never materialized, Ruemmler says Epstein soon referred her another financial institution client that retained her through 2020 while Epstein remained a primary adviser to the client, resulting in “substantial dealings” between the two.
The unnamed financial institution was Bank Edmond de Rothschild, which Epstein allegedly brought to Ruemmler as a client after telling her the bank had “a Justice Department problem” related to a broader US crackdown on Swiss banks, according to Epstein-related emails released by the Trump administration.
She said Epstein also referred additional clients and occasionally sought her legal advice, even though “Epstein was never my client.”
The former White House counsel also argued she believed Epstein’s explanation of his 2008 Florida sex-crime case because it appeared consistent with the resolution reached by prosecutors at the time.
“To be clear, at no time did I endorse or excuse the conduct for which Epstein had pleaded guilty in 2008,” Ruemmler said.
Ruemmler said she came to understand that Epstein had pleaded guilty to prostitution-related offenses involving a minor, but that he told her he had not knowingly solicited anyone underage and expressed remorse for his conduct.
She said she also reviewed a letter from one of Epstein’s attorneys that, in her view at the time, corroborated his account and reinforced her belief that prosecutors would have pursued more serious charges had they possessed evidence that he intentionally targeted minors.
The Epstein attorney, Stephanie Thacker, was appointed to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals by Barack Obama after a stint as a federal prosecutor during which she handled sex crimes and child exploitation cases.
“As a former prosecutor, I relied on the resolution reached by federal and state prosecutors and validated by a judge as being a proportionate and final resolution of his criminal conduct,” Ruemmler told lawmakers.
“My communication with Epstein ended in July 2019 after he was indicted for sex trafficking minors,” Ruemmler said, adding that she was “shocked” by the charges because they contradicted what she believed she knew about his earlier conduct.
Ruemmler acknowledged accepting gifts from Epstein but says she “didn’t ask for them, didn’t need them, and didn’t view them as particularly personal or consequential.”
She said she declined some gifts and insists they never affected how she dealt with him.
She also said many of her emails with Epstein “have been taken out of context” and describes their exchanges as “casually, informally, and sometimes irreverently.”
Ending her statement on a personal note, Ruemmler called Epstein “a masterful liar” who “clearly lied to me.”
“I can see now that he used me and other respectable people to legitimize his standing,” she said.
“I am angry that he hurt so many people, and I regret ever having anything to do with him.”
Ruemmler built a career as a federal prosecutor, served as White House counsel under Obama and later became global head of regulatory affairs before rising to chief legal officer and general counsel at Goldman Sachs.
Her ties to Epstein came under renewed scrutiny after Justice Department releases detailed years of communications, gifts and meetings between the two, ultimately leading to her resignation from the Wall Street bank’s top legal post and the congressional investigation now examining the relationship.
Epstein was arrested again in 2019 on federal sex-trafficking charges before he was found dead in his Manhattan jail cell while awaiting trial.
Goldman and Bank Edmond de Rothschild both declined comment.